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 Post subject: Knight useful?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:39 am 
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Spider

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:29 am
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I played a lot a while back and I prefer to play tank roles if possible, "Tanking" really isnt to big of a strat in TWRPG I understand, its more a burst them out type of game for most bosses. i've heard Knight is needed to SD but for everything else I dunno how useful he will be. I will most likely end up making a Knight no matter how this turns out because stubbornness but like thoughts on the Knight class? Any useful tanks other than Knight? Also with new items being added in recently best end game build for knight?


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 Post subject: Re: Knight useful?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:37 am 
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Jack
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Knight is not NECESSARY for SD, however with the recent changes to Breaks Knight is definitely useful on SD as long as your team has enough dps. Also Knight can box for Samael (as can the other tanks).

Other tanks would primarily be Crusader and Paladin, and in certain situations Berserker.

Crusader has more damage and self survivability than Knight, however it has no means to dodge instant-kills (although Knight needs end-game gear to block them), and has no utility whatsoever. Her only purpose is to punch things.

Paladin has more damage than Knight, although I don't know how to compares to Crusader or Berserker. He also has many support abilities such as his 4 auras (Damage, Armor, Speed, Regen), his Q (Heal in a line) and his R (does different things depending on aura).

Berserker is probably the least tanky of the four, however Berserker is unique in that it can tank instant kills right away. If you use Berserk (R) when you have 100 mana then you are impossible to kill for the entire duration of the skill. Also with its new ulty, Berserker is very useful on Samael as the last hit applies a debuff to all enemies in the aoe that reduces healing by 50% for 10 seconds.

Knight End Game Gear:
Winter's Heart (Hands down best knight weapon just because of the spec)
Ispion, the Runed Ring (although it's bugged at the moment and doesn't actually give movespeed)
Halo of Judgement (It has no competition, passive too stronk)
Creation (Decent tank armor and very useful spec)
Grim Heart (Definitely the best wings after the buff they just got)

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 Post subject: Re: Knight useful?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:50 am 
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Blood Wraith
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SuicidiumVIGIL wrote:
I will most likely end up making a Knight no matter how this turns out because stubbornness
Well as the main knight around these parts that's a good trait to have if you want to get to end game bosses. Now while i love the class i do have a hard time recommending it outside of a group setting. if you have people who are willing to carry you until you're useful, great, otherwise other chars can do better than knight at a lot of things while still being decent at what knight does well.

So pretty much every boss through dl is just "can you do enough damage" most don't even really care about a time limit and given enough time almost any char can beat these bosses. After that there's only a few bosses left to consider

rectus - can be alright, you can shield to take stalker explosions and give the ranged dps an easy time aiming.
Sb - pretty useless, sometimes you can protect someone a little bit longer.
ae- breaking is imporant, and knight does offer other protective capabilities that can help if your team lacks shielding from priest/wim. often times not as much as them, as using the ult to protect can often result in ent healing.
tl - with wof you can do decent damage on blues, otherwise you're just holding the main turtle in the middle, and several classes can do that
fn - you can kite easier and faster than any other classes (anyone who says otherwise is wrong, though this assumes roughly equal gear on all classes), a very important role for that boss. with enough gear and good kiting, a knight can solo fn, or have a reasonable duo with an actual dps (candies from upgraded jack bag help a ton)
sk - mostly you're just going to eat a stomp or try to hold aggro on the mini skeletons so the other people have less to worry about.
zl - actually really bad. knight taunts and has low dps which makes attacking the main body awkward, and taking one of the stars requires someone else to trigger it. so often you just run around stunning aco's during their coils, which many classes can do, several of which are better at it.
sam - mostly boxing. it's boring, but it's required to beat the boss and knight's natural ability to heal and live forever is pretty handy there.
sd - breaking and sometimes gathering drakes or protecting people with ult. and at this point there isn't really a better character for breaking as i believe lancer's cd is longer than 15s, but sd's a bit of a pain
if i missed any bosses, sorry it's 3 am, i don't really care that much to check, and this is a good sized list of endish game content.

as far as other tanks are concerned, lancer is somewhat tanky, imo not as much as knight, but it does have a break and some decent combo damage. There's the crusader, which again has decent combo damage, is quite tanky (i would say more than lancer) and while she's a great solo char (good damage, great self heal, some stuns) she just doesn't do anything well enough to really shine as a character. Dk and Berzerker and paladin can heal alot and thunderers tend to build items a bit more on the survival side of things, but i wouldn't call any of these real tanks, and knight's the only one who can really direct damage and protect others on their team. As far as items i try to keep them up to date in my guide along with alternatives and lower tier items, which are still good at the time with a snip-it about why they work well with knight which can be found here.http://www.twrpg.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21

for weapons you want winter's heart and oceanus or death scythe (these two do more damage than winter's heart).
for your helm it depends on the boss, if your group needs more protection the will of protector can provide more help there, otherwise halo of judgement helps with damage.
for your ring it really depends what flavor you like, bone is good stats and passive/active, ispion is great for healing people and otherwise living, but as dragon said it's supposed to have movespeed but currently doesnt and as many knight items don't have ms, until this does i can't really recommend it. i can see an argument for latea with it's absolute block.
end game armor is definitly creation in the next version it's active is going to include a group ams, which is very useful. otherwise earthen plates is good and so can be reactive armor if you need some more damage. sd's armor is also useful, though i personally don't care too much for it.
Wings can be tricky to nail on the head. yes grim heart is good, but frozen heart is average at best. wof is great for damage and has nice healing, whereas grim heart wont really be that amazing until late game bosses where your slight damage really drops off to nothing. sotd can also be good as you intend to take a lot of damage, and can die and deal some damage, as well as get back up and keep going. zl wings currently are nice because of their massive heal and movespeed in one convenient package, just don't bother trying to use the extra stats for much, as you don't have enough skill damage to make it work and even if you did, any reasonable dps char will outpace you in a heartbeat


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 Post subject: Re: Knight useful?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:15 am 
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Mage Lord

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:56 pm
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Yeah lancer's break is 18s cd which isn't enough for all the breaks on sd. Also crusader is tankier than lancer but lancer can tank pretty ok, not as much as knight/crusader tho. She's more of a dmg/support char, doesn't really shine in tanking until zl/sd gear mostly.

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 Post subject: Re: Knight useful?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:08 pm 
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Mad Clown

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Honnestly in TWRPG there isn't any real tank beside knight. I mean, even tanky char are going damage (lancer crusader pally)

I don't even recommend main weapon of crusader because it's uneeded to be that tanky, and you lose damage in comparaison of other items.

Tank are supposed to take damage so team is safe, but in TWRPG most of endgame boss are about dodging aoe spell/instakill, so tank arn't tanking. Only knight has a passive effect taunt, freeing team from boss AA's damage (which often doesn't matter that much). And in top of that knight isn't even able to survive instakill spell by anyway until he gets his weapon which is one of the hardest thing to craft in tw.

If you take knight, basically you'll only bring utility, no damage, no tanking (since your team will take damage anyway). It's a char that will get all items that won't increase damage at all but bring much utility. (for example will of protector, I don't see any reason a char would have to get this item, except if it's a knight since anyway he was already useless, so at leaste give some damage reduction).

I hope you'll be ready of people asking to replace you for someone else until you get full stuff.

So there is items you should look for in order (In my opinion)
weapon : anything > scythe > winter's heart
armor : plates of regeneration > earthen+reactive > creation
helm : halo(?) > judgment+will
ring : lifestone > oath > Ispion (also get ring of the dead, it's really useful to reduce boss' healing, even if it's weak early item)
wings : frozen heart > wings of fury > soul of the dead/soul eater > grim heart.

Some little explanation... (item suggested are only for team not solo. that's why I didn't suggest anger, bone or w/e else)

weapons : in begining you don't have any real usefull weapon, so just get anything, like corruptor, just so you have a weapon giving you much stats (and also hp). then death scythe is an item that reduce damage resistance of the boss, meaning your whole team will do more damage. Which is quite good. ~~~~And finally winter's heart is best dps wise and tanking wise, also allow you to tank instakill.~~~~

armor : no utility armor until cration (purelight and lamentation will be used by any other str), so just get these, good tanking wise and give special effect. reactive will be only to do damage.

helm : halo is ams, which can be nice in case of bad silence on SK/SD. Judgement gives you ams and way more dps since this item is broken, and WoP will grant resistance to your team.

ring : lifestone for aura, ms and revive, oath then for shield and Ispion for aoe heal and tank.

wings : no utility wings until soul eater, so just get wings that gives damage (+ revive for sotd). Grim heart in final gives nice stats and reduce heal of boss.

That's about it for my opinion about knight. If you want to get another tank, I would highly recommand lancer. lancer is really tanky, has some decent damage and really great supporting. In top of having ability to break as knight, he can considerably increase damage of the team with QE debuff and T teambuff. In top of that he is way easier to gear up. Weapon doesn't even need SK, armor will be lamentation which only needs SK, helm will be CoF or Judgement (cof is really fine until judgement), ring will be brooch/latea/bone and wings can be basically anything (support like soul eater or damage like EoN). None of them will need SD, and potentially only judgement will need samael.

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Last edited by Urim03 on Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Knight useful?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:07 pm 
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Blood Wraith
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Urim03 wrote:
winter's heart is best dps wise
nope.


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 Post subject: Re: Knight useful?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:27 pm 
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Jack
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CerealTriumph wrote:
Urim03 wrote:
winter's heart is best dps wise
nope.


Get rekt.

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 Post subject: Re: Knight useful?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:40 pm 
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Mad Clown

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CerealTriumph wrote:
Urim03 wrote:
winter's heart is best dps wise
nope.


Isn't active a WM ulti kind ? If you use active nicely it should do tons of damage right ? as I said everything is thought in team wise, not solo.

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 Post subject: Re: Knight useful?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:39 pm 
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Jack
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Quote:
Empowers your attacks with frost for 10 seconds. Upon attacking the same unit 8 times during the active the enemy is struck with an explosion of ice, freezing it and all enemies in a small AoE for 4 seconds, and dealing (15x Str+12.5x Agi+0.75x Magic Damage dealt to target during those 8 attacks) Pure Damage to them. Passive proc does not trigger while active effect is on, but rather triggering active resets # of hits to 0 and instead of getting passive proc on 8th hit you get active proc. Triggers only once for each activation.(2 Minute Cooldown)


It only depends on your damage Urim. Of which Knight has almost none.

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 Post subject: Re: Knight useful?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:00 am 
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Blood Wraith
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Urim03 wrote:
Isn't active a WM ulti kind ? If you use active nicely it should do tons of damage right ? as I said everything is thought in team wise, not solo.
As much as i'd like that to be the case, as far as i know there are no plans to do something of that sort. as it stands now scythe is stronger dpswise (with tiber and active anger with heaven field above that), and wh is better for things that shield a lot as well as disabling (like twin snow for mages).

And last time i checked it, even with ult and such i was only getting about 350k


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